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asa
Primordial
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 342
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You mention the Paragon of Water? What was the requirements to get it? Or do you not consider this a Path for the Good to take? (especially since you mentioned getting rid of your taint to do so) |
Yep, path for good. Showed up late in the game, required a LOT of effort to get, and provided a relatively minor bonus. (can use a paragon ability to do something major once a game year). As scotty suggested, I consider it a good thing, but it didn't get close to compensating for a lot of the evil side's stuff. Incidentally, the rules were laid out bare for all to review (Probably can still find them somewhere on this forum).
| Quote: | | Black Powder was my Clan's bonus. Just as the Crane's was to pay less for trade and the Unicorn's was to pay less upkeep to horsemen. |
Scotty's reply to this is my thought as well, particularly since you could not only use the stuff in combat, but you could sell it to others for other purposes.
| Quote: | | Well, again, when the Salesman (Andre) showed up at your door, and wanted to talk, you said, "Sorry, not Interested!" and basically slammed the door in his face. You want to see what goods he has for sale, you need to ask him in to talk. |
Actually, when the salesman showed up, the Crab showed them every courtesy one could expect between two nations on uncertain terms. I specifically remember giving your group as nice a welcome as I could without exposing my province to some kind of trojan horse invasion. There was security, and limited access to my lands, but I didn't slam the door in your face.
And, as far as the talk goes, I remember it being quite civil. I raised a question as to why you wanted a particular artifact, I believe, and the identity of someone you called a mutual friend. You wouldn't reveal the identity, and (to avoid the possibility of being tricked into working for another agent of the shadowlands) I told you that we couldn't have a deal unless you were open enough for me to be able to trust your motives. Be cagey with an offer, and you'll get a cagey response.
| Quote: | | You were the only Clan that had a CLAN fighting bonus. Several Clans had a Clan Elite fighting bonus (such as the Unicorn Horsemen Elites you mentioned), which was limited to but a few troops (ie limit of your elite units). But you were the only one that had a overall Clan fighting bonus. Yes, just against Shadowlands, but all (except Ashigaru) your troops got the bonus from it. |
Ah you're right, iI had remembered the Unicorn clan bonus incorrectly. Since I never fought them I never paid that much attention and apparently misunderstood what was going on. Still, that has nothing to do with the problem that you're trying to explain why 'The Crab are too tough', and i'm explaining that the Crab do not get a general combat advantage over other players. No, the Crab fighting bonus against shadowlands does not count in any way since players are not shadowlands creatures. In fact, I find it to be a pretty small compensation for the penalty of having to share province border with the shadowlands (who build up armies and attack with special rules)
| Quote: | | As far as I can tell, your Hida Berserker is a fighting bonus against other players. Your text in a previous post, mentioned that you recieved no such bonus. I'm mearly pointing out that noone had a CLAN bonus against other Clans (in combat) and you did have a CLAN ELITE bonus against other Clans (as did other Clans against you). So I am still unsure what YOU meant when you posted |
I was talking only about what you have been calling clan bonus. The error I suppose was when I said 'My troops got no special fighting bonus against other players'. I suppose the word 'troops' is what you put stress on, while I was putting stress on the word 'special'. I should have used the word 'armies' instead of 'troops' or something maybe.
The Crab clan does not have an inherent fighting bonus against other players (although they have Elite Units who's special ability is increased AV), and did not have any other specific advantage over other players or even troop distribution in order for people to rationally call them 'tough'. Thus, when I complain about not having enough money, it was not to distract people from a false impression that I was overpowered.
for reference, first
| you wrote: | | To do Lo5R the way you want it done, is to make every province equal in terms of Koku, all troop costs/stats/abilities equal, and starting army values equal. If characters are used, everyone has equal access to the various Schools. The only difference between starting as the Crab vs the Crane, is the name (well, maybe color too). Other than that, you can't do things differently. |
Then,
| I wrote: | Not at all. I'm talking about rules balancing and fairness. Neither of which are necessarily equality. But when you weigh the advantages of starting koku, troop costs and abilities, and other attributes together with that of other players, you should come up with equal standing. Equal standing doesn't need to persist after the start of the game, but the GM can't be giving a player a unique helping hand because of some outside factor.
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Then | you wrote: |
And again, how many people felt the Clans were equal at the beginning of the game? Because if it wasn't fair from Day 1, days 2- whatever don't matter.
Last I checked, for every "The Crab have no money" complaint, there were at least 2 "The Crab are too tough." Sounds like it was balanced. So why complain about money? Was it to complain to make sure people didn't think you were overpowered or because you thought it was unfair? Either way, I think I make my arguement. You didn't feel we started out on equal standing (real or perceived) so why would it matter if events happened later on that caused additional unfairness. |
In my quote, I was stating a fact that I think that, generally, clans should start out balanced, but not necessarily equal in response to your assertation that I wanted clans to be completely equal. You seem to have taken that to mean that I was complaining about lack of money, which I wasn't (in that quote). Then the confusion started with your second quote there. |
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Scotty
Blotter
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 296
Location: The side of the universe farthest from Tattoine.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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So, umm, yeah.
...and stuff!
Any response from the talking head known as Michael on where this goes next?
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"...The Scorpion have purchased a large quantity of Gaijin black power..."
Chase:
"CRAP" |
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Michael
Celestial Exalted
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 1224
Location: In a poorly shaded shelter within the Great Burning Waste
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, sorry. I kinda set this up and then couldn't come back. Work hates me at the moment.
I did want people to get out what they thought before I weighed in, however, so that seems to be a good thing. I promise movment on this by the end of the Holiday weekend!
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I like my coffee like I like my women. COVERED IN BEES! -Izzard |
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Don The Anvil
God Blooded
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 334
Location: In the Foundation
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael wrote: | | I promise movment on this by the end of the Holiday weekend! |
Sounds like you need more Fiber in your diet 
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There are some things I like about George W Bush. Since he took office, the New England Patriots have won 3 Super Bowls and the RedSox won the World Series after a 86 year drought. |
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